In conversation with Simone: Falling in love with songwriting.
I chatted to Simone from across the pond. She’s in New York - I’m in a very rainy London. We go right back to the first song she’d ever written and how she’s always used songwriting as a tool to verify her feelings. We also catch up about what she’s looking forward to now she’s finally found her perfect sound in her upcoming EP.
Simone:
Hello!
Amy:
Hey, it’s great to meet you Simone.
Simone:
You too. Thanks for taking the time!
Amy:
How are you doing today?
Simone:
I'm good. I love your shirt, it's very cool.
Amy:
Thanks! It's like some old Billie merch I think? Haha.
Simone:
Sick. I was thinking it had the Billie vibes. That makes sense!
Amy:
What time is it, and where are you at the moment?
Simone:
I'm in New York right now, so it's noon. I actually just moved, I was in LA for a couple years and now I'm back in New York, which is where I'm from.
Amy:
Oh, cool. So you grew up there then as well?
Simone:
Yeah I grew up in Manhattan, and now I've made my way back.
Amy:
That’s so cool. I'm in London, it's just turned 5 o'clock so I've just finished work.
Simone:
Ah my parents are doing a little couples trip at the moment, it's very cute. They were in London for I think like four days, and now they're in Paris and sending a lot of pictures. It looks really fun there and also it looks like much nicer weather than it is right now. It's so hot.
Amy:
Maybe in Paris but it's horrible here. It's like non-stop rain. Everyone likes complaining about the weather though. We're so used to it - we're just like, ‘oh, it's more rain’ haha...
So I read that you are always writing! I'd love to just dive in and start with asking you, can you remember your earliest memory of writing a song, or the first song you ever wrote?
Simone:
I feel like a lot of artists say this, but I genuinely feel like I've always been writing. For as long as I can remember, just making up songs and writing them down. I remember there was one song I had written after a theatre rehearsal when I was nine? I don't even remember what it was called, but there are specific memories I have early on of writing certain songs. What I used to do when I had an iPod touch, I would just start recording and just sing for like five minutes and see what I would come up with.
There was a song that I wrote called ‘Dear Dad’ that's always been a big thing in my family. It was just a song that I had improvised. I used to do it like that when I was you know 7/8/9, just start recording and just sing in my room. I think the first song I remember writing on the guitar when I was about 10 or 11 was a song called ‘For You’. That was the first song where I was like, oh, this is actually like a real song - I wrote it on the guitar and it has a format - and that is the song I always think back to as the first song that started it all. It was a song that I'd written about a celebrity that I had a crush on - I was just like, he's so cute and I'm gonna write a song about him and pretend that we're in love and gonna, you know, get married and stuff.
Amy:
That's so sweet. I was gonna ask you what that song was about and also how did it make you feel when you kind of had all of your thoughts down in a song and you listened to it back? Was it therapeutic to you? Can you remember the main reason behind you wanting to write that song when you had a big crush?
Simone:
Haha, no it was awesome. I do remember writing those first few songs on the guitar and playing it for my parents and they had this response of whoa, this is really cool. I was very shy as a kid and I really did not know how to express my emotions and talk about things. I was just very closed off, and really didn't talk at all. The minute that I started writing songs, I was saying all these things that I could never say in real life about being in love with celebrities, but also about my emotions and about how I was feeling inside and with girls and boys at school, and kind of just expressing through music.
That was the moment where I thought, oh this is actually a way for me to express myself in a way that I didn't have before. It became an outlet so quickly and it was just this discovery of ‘wow, this feels really good’. That was the thing that clicked with me the most. I would go home from school and write about my day. It became how I responded to things, which became the reason why I got so attached to it.
Amy:
Yeah, definitely. Is it a way of helping you work out what you're thinking as well? Because sometimes when obvious things are happening to you, it can take some time for you to think ‘actually what have I just gone through, and how do I feel about that?’ So maybe it's a route to get there quicker? Like you can write the song and then be like - oh, this is actually how I'm processing things?
Simone:
Totally. I feel like I go through phases with my songwriting, where I'll feel something really intensely and I'll write like 10 songs about it immediately, and then a month goes by and I'm like, okay I was really just feeling the emotions going through it, and then I can kind of look back on it, process it and write about it with more perspective. Those are the songs that usually end up being released or polished because it feels like I have more time to process things. I'm a long processor, it takes me a long time, but it's cool to go through those kinds of emotions. I definitely do have that instinct reaction of ‘I need to write about this’, but I also recognize that maybe it's not gonna be the greatest song I've ever written. It's just gonna be saying how I'm feeling. Sometimes those are great songs, but sometimes I just need some more time to figure out how I wanna look at it, I guess.
Amy:
Yeah I get that. Perhaps some of those songs are just more journalistic and for yourself, and then the ones that you actually want to release as an artist or what you want to put out in the world is a different thing. So it makes you put more time into and polish those ones a bit more?
Simone:
Totally. It's become so important for me to write songs for myself. I just think when you're always writing and have this perspective of ‘how are people gonna react to this?’ Or ‘how is this gonna sound like produced?’ - sometimes for me it's just important to have those songs that I just write in my room that no one else will ever hear. It really is just like a journal entry and not for anyone else. It's just for me to listen to which I think has been important for me to remember that I write songs because it helps me go through life. I think I would do it even if I wasn't really in music.
Amy:
Or having a career in it - yeah totally. That's nice to look back on as well. When you're older you can look back at all these things - like a journal really.
Simone:
Yeah, I have voice memos dated back to like 2012 on my phone and I'll just look back on it and it's the craziest thing ever. I remember feeling those things and experiences, I remember it all. It's definitely a really cool kind of diary / journal thing.
Amy:
It transports you straight back there?
Simone:
Yeah, exactly.
Amy:
Yeah, that's so cool. Can you remember who your first influences were? Who, if you looked back to when you were younger, you thought ‘oh, I'd love to be like them one day’, or ‘I'd love to make songs like that person’? Do you think they still shape the sound you have today?
Simone:
I mean the first artist that I ever listened to and fell in love with was Taylor Swift. Obviously I feel like there's just this generation of girls that discovered her music and started writing because of that. I was singing and performing before, then my dad played me one of her songs and I just fell in so deeply and so quickly. She was the first artist that I cared about, 'cause before then I was just really listening to soundtracks and musical theatre, but I never really knew about songwriting and artistry.
I discovered her and how she came to be in her songwriting story and I really just dove in. It was definitely the reason why I thought ‘oh, I gotta learn how to play guitar, I gotta get serious about songwriting, I gotta go to Nashville’. I was just so inspired by this young woman who had this passion. I resonated with her a lot and felt like this is someone that was saying things in her music that I had never heard before. She was definitely the reason why I fell in love with songwriting.
Amy:
Why do you think you connected to her so much?
Simone:
She's the only artist that has been consistent throughout my life and I've grown up with her so I’m connected to her music in that way. I still think she's the greatest - as a business woman and how she presents herself, how she connects with her audience and how she writes her songs. I don't know. Everything about it I just think is so inspiring. Throughout my time writing songs she's always been the blueprint. No matter what.
Amy:
Yeah. I completely agree. I think it's crazy how she manages to keep that connection - you feel such a personal connection with her and such a close tie, and she manages that with all her fans. That’s quite a rare thing to be able to achieve I think, just that level of intimacy with such a wide audience.
Simone:
Yeah I've never seen anything like it. I remember when 1989 came out and that was kind of the album that I was like, ‘oh my gosh, this is the best thing I've ever heard’. At that point I thought she was the biggest artist in the world, and then we just watched her skyrocket. It's so cool though because there are still girls right now that were my age when I discovered her music, you know, at 10 or 11 that are now starting to write songs because of her. I've never seen someone hold this influence for so long, she’s awesome.
Amy:
I'm seeing her next Sunday actually, I can't wait. I have no idea what to wear yet though I’m a bit stressed…
Simone:
No way. Oh my gosh. That'll be so good. You’ll figure it out, it’ll come together!
Amy:
I hope so haha! She's an inspiration for so many people, so talking of how you reflect your sound in that way - I was listening to your discography and I noticed a kind of natural process of how your sound has evolved. Was that conscious decision trying different genres or have there been any external factors that have influenced that? What has made you kind of change things up a little bit, especially more recently?
Simone:
Yeah, that's awesome. I love when people notice that. I think it's cool 'cause I feel like right now genres are so blended that it doesn't even matter. I definitely feel like I've always written and wanted to make what I was listening to at the time. I started recording really young, when I was 12, but I didn't feel like I knew what I was doing in the studio until a couple years ago. I was writing all the songs by myself and I knew what the story was, but I didn't know how to express that through production. So I think because of that, there was a lot of experimentation early on. I was just so happy to be there that I just thought ‘whatever you want to do to my song, do it’.
There was a time where I was definitely super into pop music and then I think over the past year or two, I don't know, I kind of just had this moment of realisation that I've always played shows just me and my guitar, and when you're writing pop music, that's not a very easy thing to like, you know…
Amy:
Yeah, when you’re just stripped back on stage?
Simone:
Yeah and I realised that I loved playing music just me and a guitar, and that was how I wrote music. There was a switch in my head, let me take a step back and go back to the organic natural production - a bit more timeless. I really wanted to change something. I still love pop music and I love that style of production, but I think for me, I never felt like it matched my personality enough. I feel like it just wasn't who I was as an artist.
I went to Nashville to record my last EP (in September) and that changed everything. When I got there it felt so refreshing to record music like that again, with all the instruments in the room and to feel like everything was live and everything felt so real. I was like, ‘oh this is how I should be making music, this is what music is for’. From then on, I've just been seeing music through that lens.
I think I would definitely go back to pop music in the future as I think my music naturally melody wise is pop music. The way that I produce it is different but I feel like something that stays consistent throughout my discography, even though the production has changed so much, it's always been about the story. Which I think is really cool, and I feel like that is something that won't really ever change 'cause I'm, you know, I'm the same person writing all these songs haha. It's not gonna be a drastic change, but I think I finally found a sound that really feels like me. I've never found a way to match everything - the writing and my voice and the production. Now I finally feel like I’ve got there, which is really cool. I'm excited about that.
Amy:
That must feel so nice, to finally have it all into place?
Simone:
Oh my God, totally.
Amy:
I think you're right about that. You have such a sense of self throughout all your songs, even though the genre and the production has changed slightly, but listening to them all, they still do sound a bit of a collective. The core of your songwriting is still in all those songs I feel, which is great.
Your last single ‘Linger’ was released in May. How's the response been? How have you found it putting it out into the world? Was it terrifying? Was it exciting?
Simone:
I was so happy to put it out because a lot of this EP I wrote in 2022, so it's been a minute. I had all the songs and I loved 'em so much, but it was really about getting the production right. By the time I released it, I had already been playing it live for two years and it almost felt like it was already out. It felt crazy 'cause I'd never been through that long of a process before, so it felt really rewarding to put it out and I was just excited to start the next chapter of my music and my career.
I had just been on my first headline tour, it was called the Open Book Tour and I only played shows in bookstores. I think I did 11 shows before the song came out. The first weekend I was playing that song a bunch so I was seeing people's reaction to the it firsthand. That was really special and made the release even more incredible. Knowing that people had heard this song live and already felt connected to it was really awesome, to know who was listening to the song 'cause I had met them. After the shows, people would say ‘oh, I can't wait for Linger to come out’. I've never had that experience where there was this anticipation.
Amy:
You're holding onto something that they want, that must feel really weird… but so fun haha. That was gonna be my question, had you performed it live! So how is it if you hear people singing your lyrics back to you, how does that feel?
Simone:
Oh my gosh. Yeah it's so funny because playing in bookstores is obviously a very different vibe, there isn't gonna be this really loud sing-along thing, but I definitely encouraged people to sing if they wanted to. There would be moments in the crowd where I could see someone whispering the lyrics, but they were a little afraid to sing fully. There were a few shows where people actually went pretty hard, It was really fun.
Amy:
Was there one show you remember most in particular?
Simone:
I played in Baltimore, and that was the most I'd heard people singing my lyrics ever, it was so cool. People were crying to the song, which was new, I'd never experienced that either. Seeing that directly, especially when you're in a bookstore, you can really see everyone, there's no darkness and there's no stage either. It's really intimate so it was crazy to see that right away. I was about to finish the set and I was like, ‘wait, this is so much fun, does anyone have a request?’, and then someone in the front row requested an older song of mine. I just played one and everyone was singing it. I remember looking at my dad 'cause he tours with me (he’s like my roadie), and just being like, this is so cool haha. That was definitely a really cool moment seeing how these songs have resonated with people and seeing that live, there's nothing like that.
Amy:
Yeah. That must feel amazing. Just like that connection and in such an intimate setting. When you're staring at these fans it must feel like they aren't just your fans, they're maybe part of your family or your circles. That must be so nice.
Simone:
It was really, really great. Yeah, that was definitely a really, really fun experience.
Amy:
I'd love to talk more about your lyrics. When I was listening to that song [Linger], the line ‘Strange how fast I knew you and didn't again’, I think it takes you back to one of those first relationships that's so far in the past now and it almost feels like a snapshot of time. Can you tell me more about what inspired you to write that song and those lyrics? I feel like it's really honest and conversational and I really like that. It makes it feel like you're just having a chat with a friend or hearing someone's inner dialogue - was it like that when you wrote it?
Simone:
Totally. I'd never really written a song like that before. I remember writing that in my room one day and I started with the first verse - and none of it rhymes, it's very much just a sentence. I've never written songs like that, I've always been very strict on it needs to follow this rhyme scheme. I just remember that coming out very quickly but not knowing where to go with it after 'cause it was so specific. A few months later I went back to it and I remember writing the second verse before I even went to the chorus.
I knew that the verses had to be very specific memories, then once I got to the chorus I remember realising I was writing this from the perspective of this being a memory of very specific moments in a relationship that you remember and you don't really know why. From that point on, I was like, okay this is just about not being able to forget someone. I kind of went to that angle. I don't remember who said this, maybe it was Bruce Springsteen? Something about - the verses are for you and the chorus is for everyone.
That is how this song feels, the verses are so specific and then the chorus is this universal experience that we've all had of not being in a relationship with someone anymore, but still somehow feeling them everywhere and literally lingering in your life and down the streets you walk on. Even though this person isn't in your life anymore and you're okay with that, for some reason you can't ever just forget someone and what you went through together - which is the most annoying thing ever haha. That's kind of the perspective that went into the chorus, and I was really happy when that finally clicked. It was months of a process of just having that verse knowing I loved it and not really knowing where to go with it.
Amy:
I love the song. That's so interesting that you said about having the verses be personal and the chorus more universal, because it feels like you’re pulling someone in and out of the song almost - as I’m listening to the verses I'm hearing your perspective, but then in comes the chorus, and then by the second verse I'm thinking, oh - what would my version of this be? What are my memories about the person that I'm thinking about when that chorus kicks in. I love that, it makes it really special and means that you can connect way more with the song, which is lovely.
I wanna know what's next for you? What are your upcoming plans? Are you writing? Is there anything you can share with us at the moment?
Simone:
Yeah, I have an EP coming out this year, in September that I'm so excited about. The next single actually will be out on the 28th of this month, which I'm so excited about. It’s called ‘Any Girl’. It’s very different from Linger but it fits in the same universe, so I'm really excited to show a different side of the project. It's definitely not like anything I've released before. I've also been playing that one live for a really long time. There are a bunch of songs this year off of that project that I'm just really excited to share. I've been already writing the next thing too which is really great. These songs have been done for like two years, so I'm very much in the headspace of already thinking about the next thing, which is cool. I'm very, very happy about that.
Amy:
That's so exciting. I can't imagine the feeling of sitting on this collection of songs and then being ready to release them. It must be so nerve wracking, but also amazing?
Simone:
It's exciting, but what happens after this is done? I've never waited this long to release something, but I feel like it was worth it and I feel like I couldn't be happier with how it came out.
Amy:
Is that because you were perfecting the songs? Are you a perfectionist or is it just because of how circumstances have fallen?
Simone:
Yeah the production just wasn't right for a really long time and I was waiting to find the right producers which took a while. I think all the songs were done by the end of the summer of 2022. I had all these songs, but they just didn't feel - I don't know, I held off on them for a little bit because something about it wasn’t clicking. Then in the fall of last year, I was introduced to Jake Finch and Collin Pastore who produced this EP and they're in Nashville. I'd never met them before, but it was a random connection that my manager had with their manager. So it was really taking a chance and being like, ‘okay, I like your work, let's see how it goes’. I went to Nashville and we recorded the whole thing in a week or two weeks.
Amy:
Wow. So the actual process of recording was super quick?
Simone:
Yeah it really was just waiting to find the right people at the right time. Recording them all and then revisiting them after having held onto them for about a year at that point and not knowing where or what would happen to them, and then finally bringing them to life in that way was so rewarding, was so fun and definitely could not have been a better experience for sure.
Amy:
I'm so happy it was worth the wait and I'm so excited to hear - so excited. Listen, are you planning to come to London anytime soon?
Simone:
Oh my gosh, I would love to. I'm definitely probably gonna be there this year for writing. There's so many great songwriters out in London, so I definitely feel like I'll be making a trip out there to meet some of those which will be really fun. I love it there, I've only been once but I’m a fan so hopefully a show there would be amazing. I don't know when, but that would be awesome.
Amy:
Yes please play a show, or even do a meetup!
Simone:
Oh my god. Yeah a little park picnic?
Amy:
Yes, that'd be so fun. It was so lovely to speak to you. What are you doing for the rest of the day?
Simone:
I’m in the middle of promoting ‘Any Girl’ which comes out in a couple weeks and basically I did this thing where there's this trend going on in New York - I don't even know how it started. I think this one guy just started putting up posters that were like ‘looking for the perfect woman’ and he was only looking for serious inquiries. Then more people started doing it. I saw this one that was a bagel shop doing ‘looking for the perfect bagel’. So the song was coming out and I was like,’oh, this is the perfect time to jump on that’ - it all kind of aligned, let's do a parody of this.
We did ‘looking for the perfect woman?’ and then we put lyrics to the song and QR codes that lead to my Spotify. So today I am sending some out to fans that want to put them around their neighbourhood, which I think is so sweet. It was a very quick idea and I think it's cool that people are into it, so I'm gonna be sending those out around America and spreading the word.
Amy:
I love that. I love the old school marketing technique - the old ones are the best.
Simone:
Oh my God. Yeah, I'm always looking for new ways that don't involve a TikTok video - something different haha.
Amy:
Well thank you again so much for talking to me today. It's been so nice to meet you. Have a good one!
Simone:
Nice to meet you too. Thanks for taking the time, this has been awesome. Thank you so much.
‘Any Girl’ is out on 28th June.